Here’s an interesting exchange between a blogger, CWMW (a Christian group), and the NYT op-ed by Jenny Boylan about the gender testing planned for the Olympics:
The issue of the ‘extremely rare’ defects that result from this being a fallen world ‘not invalidating the binary nature of God’s good design of manhood and womanhood’ fails to address this. For if the binary is to hold, then 65 million people need to be categorized as either male or female. Otherwise they cannot logically be assigned scripturally defined gender roles. So what are the standards? Genitalia? Chromosomes? Capability to give birth? If the Bible doesn’t provide the standards, then someone has to. I look forward to CMWM’s answer to this.
Which is an interesting thought: if people are convinced our gender roles are laid out for us in The Bible, then what about the people who don’t fit the pre-existing genders? & What about the eunuchs?
This is exactly why I find people like CWMW so frustrating, because to them, the answers are all obvious, as pointed out in scripture. That’s such a lame, weak argument. UGH. It’s NOT obvious, and it’s NOT all laid out neatly in scripture.
And, boy, if you read Matthew, Jesus loved him some Eunuchs!!!
Does anyone else get the willies when people refuse to think for themselves, and instead put their faith in what a book or their preacher tells them to do? Somehow, I don’t think Jesus or God would want people to check their common sense, and God-given ability to think at the door.
Don’t get me wrong. I think that there’s a lot of interesting admonitions in the Bible, the Koran, or the Torah. I just don’t think that we’re supposed to take everything said there without some serious thought or consideration.
C
“Jesus loved him some Eunuchs!!!”
I heard that Jesus just loved BBQ, banana cream pie and slaw. Or was it Jewish deli with egg cremes?
A friend of mine used to say, “The devil can quote scripture for his own purpose.” To me the really sad thing is these ‘fundamentalists’ are building there lives and destroying others based on translations in a book which was written to suit the political climate hundreds of years ago!
The bible is not the ‘dictated word of god’, but many seem to think that every word is the literal words of the lord!! Then they twist them to suit their own or their churches thinking on subject
“Galatians 3:28 can be understood as well. When it says, “There is neither male nor female….for all are one in Christ†it means that before the Cross of Christ no one can boast in their gender.
Well, that should eliminate any possibility of a Christian based male-dominated structure then, no?
“Genesis 1:27 […] So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.[sic]” (s/b “male and female he created them”)
I’ve always had trouble with this, as did Thomas Aquinas, et all. A ‘perfect’ being cannot be male or female, for that implies the need of the other. For humans to be made in God’s image then implies that we are in fact genderless and gender itself therefore is a variance from perfection and outside of God’s design.
“Because this is a fallen world, there are birth defects that affect all parts of the human anatomy, but these extremely rare defects do not invalidate the binary nature of God’s good design of manhood and womanhood…’”
Ah, see that is the difference between *good* design and *perfect* design, but I digress. The writer admits to existence of gender binary defects, yet elsewhere proclaims that everyone is either male or female. Can’t have it both ways.
Aahh, politics and religion…. fun!
Esotericists would generally say this;
A. The Bible (as are Buddhists Texts, the Vedas, the Baghivad Gita, the Koran, the Caballa, etc.) is a deeply esoteric text where meaning is difficult to assess in physical world terms.
B. “There is neither male nor female….for all are one in Christâ€: The duality of outer reality as male and female does not apply to the higher consciousness and reality of the soul. It is the soul that is the reflection of God, and that which is the focus of “one in Christ”. Outer physical bodies are merely dense matter for souls to temporarily live in.
C. “So God created man in his own image…”: The esotericists state that spirit is “yang” and matter is “yin”. Spirit penetrates into matter at the God Level. The image of God is the soul, not the material expression seen in this world. The soul is made in God’s image, not the material self or personality. The soul periodically penetrates into matter (meaning they incarnate as material human beings just like God, as spirit materially expresses at a higher level in the universe.)
Because spirit “yang” penetrates yin “matter” it is allegorically a male function (i.e. yang into yin). However, this has absolutely nothing to do with gender. Souls incarnating into female bodies are doing a “yang” soul process. Hence, the male pronoun is used for both genders to describe this esoteric multi dimensional work done by the soul.
The Aquinas point is great. It directs thought to realize the perfection of the soul, or the “higher self” in Buddhist terms requires a convergence of duality to “oneness” of consciousness where the duality of male – female is converged to a higher transcendent self having no gender.
Studies in kundalini science indicate this too. According to kundalini Hindu texts, there are three channels within the kundalini energy fields (more complicated but for the forum only way to say it) There is a male (yang), female (yin) and center channel. The Path to Enlightenment is through the center channel. It requires lifetimes in both male and female forms to perfect the other two channels. Once, this is accomplished, the kundalini energy is balance in the center channel and can be drawn up that center channel by the higher self (soul) through an act of will by the soul. Enlightenment follows.
If one thinks about some of these cross spiritual concepts, it is interesting for trans people.